Could VT have done more?

**R13** · December 12th, 2010, 08:50 PM

I think about it and I wonder how miserably MECC would fail, there's a **** shooting range on the campus and you hear gunshots all the time - dumbest ****ing idea I have ever seen too, thanks VA State Police.

(CNN) -- Virginia Tech violated federal campus security law when it waited too long to inform students about a shooter on the loose during a 2007 rampage that killed 32 people, the U.S. Department of Education says in a new report.

The report, released Thursday, says the school did not notify students in a "timely manner" -- as dictated by the Clery Act -- of a dorm-room shooting that left two people dead on the morning of April 16, 2007.

The same shooter, identified as 23-year-old Cho Seung-Hui, went to the university's Norris Hall more than two hours later and killed 30 more people before turning the gun on himself.

The Clery Act was created in 1990 in memory of 19-year-old Jeanne Ann Clery, who was raped and killed while asleep in her dorm room at Lehigh University. The law requires colleges and universities to disclose information about crimes on or near their campuses.

According to the report, police went to the scene of the Virginia Tech dorm shooting at 7:24 a.m on April 16.

At 7:57 a.m. police notified the office of the executive vice president about the shooting.
2007: On scene of Virginia Tech shooting
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But it was not until 9:26 a.m. that the university first notified students and staff by e-mail about the shooting.

It was about 20 minutes after the e-mail went out that Cho opened fire in Norris Hall.

"The warnings that were issued by the university were not prepared or disseminated in a manner to give clear and timely notice of the threat to the health and safety of campus community members," the report said.

A preliminary report, released in May by the Department of Education, came to the same conclusion.

University officials from Virginia Tech disputed that report.

"Virginia Tech professionals acted appropriately in their response to the tragic events of April 16, 2007, based on the best information then available to them," the university said then in its response.

Education Secretary Arne Duncan, released a message Thursday to the victim's of the shooting.

"My heart goes out to the families of those who lost loved ones during the tragic events of April 16, 2007, and to the entire Virginia Tech community," Duncan said. "While Virginia Tech failed to adequately warn students that day, we recognize that the university has put far-reaching changes in place since that time to help improve campus safety and better protect its students and community."

Report: Virginia Tech too slow to spread word about shooter - CNN.com

**imported_elp6n** · December 12th, 2010, 09:10 PM

I've been critical of VTs lack of action from day one.
Instead of notifying anyone of the first shootings, they went about business as usual.

When a gunman shot a police officer on an off-campus trail they shut down the entire campus and had several police and sheriffs departments swarm campus. They didnt even have evidence the guy was on campus or going to campus, but they shut it down.

Their own students get shot on campus in a dorm and they just twiddle their thumbs until 30 more get killed.

They do more to shut down campus and block campus access for ESPN game day than they did for a shooting.

Mass notification methods were available and not used.

**VHSLhelper** · December 14th, 2010, 04:27 PM

Geez... I'm gonna have to disagree with basically everything you said.

"instead of notifying anyone of the first shootings, they went about business as usual" - Wrong... see below.

"Mass notification methods were available and not used" - 100% wrong... notifications were sent out before the 2nd shooting.

"They didnt even have evidence the guy was on campus or going to campus, but they shut it down." - 95% wrong on that one. The police got a call that he WAS on campus, in the student center, which turned out to be wrong.

"Their own students get shot on campus in a dorm and they just twiddle their thumbs until 30 more get killed." - Laughable... yep, no police investigations, no interviews, no APB's, no meetings, nothing. Oh, wait...

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You didn't go to Tech, did you?

Hindsight is 20-20, and those two situations had very little in common.

Morva escaped police custody Sunday morning, killing 1 & stealing a gun.
APB put out, pictures of him were on the news.
Deputy is found shot Monday morning 2 blocks from the side of campus, 7 blocks from the student center, on the first day of classes.
Someone believes they see him in Squires, SWAT comes in, classes ccd.
Morva's found later that day on the Huckleberry, less than 200 yards from campus.

With Cho, no one had any idea what/who to look for. Any notifications/alerts sent to students would have also been sent to him. He still could've gotten in Norris, or any building, or he could've went back to his room or anywhere and chilled, then waited until the next day, which might've made him madder and MORE ppl. could've been shot. There are auditorium-classrooms on campus that have more students in 1 room at 1 time than were in the three classrooms that were targeted. There are places he could've went that would've given him a clear shot at the hundreds of students that cross the Drillfield between classes.

If I lived on the Upper Quad or at Foxridge, Hunter's Ridge or Terrace View, and I had a class near Burress, I seriously doubt I would've have stayed home, because I would be nowhere near AJ.

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While ppl. sit around and argue over what "timely manner" and "immediate threat to the health or safety of students" is, and blame Tech for not being prepared for something that's never happened before, I believe the way things unfolded actually minimized the event.

**imported_elp6n** · December 14th, 2010, 04:30 PM

I understand folks are loyal to their favored schools and will defend to the end, but try telling that to parents and family of the dead students.

Notifying students two hours after the shootings, and only half an hour before the mass shootings was less than responsible.
At the time of the first shooting they could have had everything shut down easily - it was only 7:30 am. Email, BT, Campus Security, local PDs and Sheriff (they already use them for football crowd control so using them for security isn't much of a stretch) could have all been utilized before the morning rush was in full swing.

Just saying "we dont know who he is or where he's at" is no excuse to not apply every method possible to keep students safe. 30 students might have stayed home with their doors locked and still be alive today had campus been shut down. If we're going to speculate: yes Cho could have gotten more angry with a shut down but he also could have just blown his own head off with the passage of enough time - he was a ticking time bomb. Your excuse that he could have done it the next day too sounds like "he would have killed them anyway so why bother."

They didn't know where Morva was at but they shut it down for him. Morva didnt kill anyone on campus, but they shut it down for him. Morva wasn't even on campus, but they had proof that a murderer had been there on April 17. The Morva incident proves that Tech had the ability to shut down campus in an emergency (and on the busiest day of the school year no less).

The Clery Act exists for a reason, it's not voluntary participation, and Tech violated it.
It's your opinion that keeping the status quo was was the way to go, and it's my opinion that they failed in the notification process - that has been my opinion since day 1.

No I wasnt a student at Tech; I lived in Blacksburg less than a mile from campus and worked there with the students for 7 years, moving back here a year and some change before this happened.

**centennialdawg** · December 14th, 2010, 05:18 PM

I am somewhat confused, you say that texts were sent out 30 minutes prior to the second shooting? Did these texts close the school? Was is put on lockdown then?

**imported_elp6n** · December 14th, 2010, 05:54 PM

am somewhat confused, you say that texts were sent out 30 minutes prior to the second shooting? Did these texts close the school? Was is put on lockdown then?

7:30ish am: first shootings in dorm AJ. AJ is locked down.
9:00 am: University President's office is locked down.
9:30 am: 1st email stating there was a shooting in AJ.
9:45 am: 2nd round of shootings in Norris start.
9:50 am: 2nd email goes out telling students there's a gunman on campus
10:15 am: classes cancelled, students told to stay put.
10:50 am: campus locked down

**centennialdawg** · December 14th, 2010, 06:57 PM

Then why did they not just send a text after the first shooting putting the campus on lockdown.

**basketballguy** · December 14th, 2010, 07:00 PM

Link please?

**VHSLhelper** · December 15th, 2010, 12:55 AM

may need high-speed for these...

Interactive | Shooting at Virginia Tech Campus
USATODAY.com - Tragedy at Virginia Tech

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"The Clery Act exists for a reason, it's not voluntary participation, and Tech violated it."

Opinion.
Tech DID send out a message, about 2 hours later, when the first-choice of culprit was cleared and after the higher-ups met.
"Timely manner" was "re-defined" AFTER Tech to set a specific amount of time.
"immediate threat to the health or safety of students" - I don't see that being the case. No one was seen with a gun, no one was being held hostage.. this appeared to be an isolated incident. As far as I know, it's still looked at that way. Nothing about the AJ shootings would lead anyone to believe that something else would happen 2 hours later.
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"They didn't know where Morva was at but they shut it down for him....Morva wasn't even on campus..."

They did NOT shut down campus until the police rec'd a tip that he was thought to be in a building (Squires) on campus.
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Why put the campus on lock down? First LEO's there thought it was a domestic situation and were looking for Emily's b/f, who had returned to RU and went to class.

Cops don't lock-down cities when a murder is committed. And that's what Tech basically is... a city.
This had never happened before, anywhere, and no set guidelines were there for everyone to follow... Tech was flying by the seat of their pants, and did, I feel, a good job.